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Native ads(outbrain) questions (after spending $500) - promoting weight loss offer(EXIPURE)

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johnthesushigod

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I use outbrain native ads for traffic with the classic native ads funnel (AD -> SHORT LANDER -> Offer VSL), promoting EXIPURE (ClickBank #1 offer now - $150 - weight loss pills). After $500, no sales. My budget is $1500.

------------------------------------------SEP 2022:

Campaign 1: mobile(exclude in apps) - USA - no targeting limit (broad reach) - "global performance whitelist" set by my acc manager - bid $0.30 ("max conversion mode", OB auto raise/lower bids for sections/widgets based on LP CTR to my offer) - No manual excludes or bid adjusts(advised by acc manager) - $20/day:
start - after 3 days: ~ $70 ad spend,~0.12% AD CTR, ~10% LP CTR
end - After 3 weeks: ~ $400 ad spend,~0.35% AD CTR(auto optimised?), ~24% LP CTR(auto optimised?). ~300 Aff link clicks (CPA ~ $1.2), 12 order form impressions, 0 sales.

-----------------------------------------------

Screenshot 2022-10-13 at 10.01.49 AM.png


Screenshot 2022-10-13 at 10.02.20 AM.png
Screenshot 2022-10-13 at 10.29.49 AM.png


-----------------------------------------------

i tested at least 20 landers but this is the major one, it looks good on mobile: https://healthy-well.netlify.app/old-versions/v8


With this data, the cvr rate for exipure(#1 on CB mind you) is less than 0.3%? To make a $30 profit out of $150 sale with a $1 CPA (aff link click on my LP), the offer vsl needs at least 1% conversion rate which it def doesnt have.
so one disappointing month later, i made new campaign with desktop cuz i thought it may be 3X higher than mobile, + some creatives improvements.

-----------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------OCT 2022:


Campaign 2: desktop - USA - no targeting limit (broad reach) - bid $0.50 ("max conversion mode") - No manual excludes or bid adjusts - $50/day:

now (campaign is still running): CTR: 0.02%, LP CTR: 12 - 20%, $2.10 CPA, ~80 AFF CLICKS, 2 order form impressions, 0 sales. ~$200 ad spend.

Ahhhhhhh, this is miserable, i've even tried asking exipure aff support, but they never gave me their vsl's cvr data for native. I've tried Spark by Cb but its just crap (in their native ads guide the guy spent $850 to make 1 sale of $45...).
My lander and ad copies are all inspired by Anstrex's top performers under ("Clickbank" + "Asc. Ad strength"). Most have 200K+ ad strength - revcontent - direct linking, i wonder how if they are profiting...


-----------------------------------------------

Question: So how can i improve and make my campaign profitable?

1- Campaign settings wise: should i manually make a blacklist campaign first(instead of letting OB auto optimise like 'recommended', as this may need massive budget and lots of conversions to work? - if so what do i check? 10+ visits but <1 clicks, 20+ visits but <3 clicks, or by relative like bottom 20% of converters? how many % to decrease or block completely?) till sufficient scale(eg: 100 conversions) then make a whitelist campaign?


2- Technical stuffs wise: could majority traffic be bots(cuz the low cvr)? traffic Exipure's vsl not good(unlikely)?

3- Creatives wise: could my cpa be too high? Are my pre-conversion stats like CPA(~$1.50), CPC(~$0.35) and LP CTR(~20%) bad?

--------------------------------------------------


Thanks to anyone who can lend me some help. i am willing to spend 5+ hours every day if that's needed.
 

johnthesushigod

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update: I've contacted account manager, they mentioned Outbrain has a VERY strict bot policy and so bots traffic shouldn't be the issue.
 

mmsooi247ceo

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...tip off the month, for you. I've been doing this for years, solo. I cant see all the way into your campaign...but, offer and traffic network has to match. Number one your promoting an offer that your consumer has to ingest. So therefore most are going to bounce off the page to research, especially if its cold traffic. You should go for the impulse buy, like an email submit type offer. Then graduate up to the other offers once your in profit. You need high volume traffic networks, to where as your paying .002 cents per click or less. That is where your profit will come, screw the product. Do not fall in love with the offer, and pay attention to your EPC vs CPC. I've blew through alot of cash before I learned, what your learning. Hope that helps you out a little bit. Im not on this forum alot. Im thinking of starting my own channel, helping you guys out.
 

joeybabbs

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You mentioned CPA(~$1.50) - what is the action you are measuring here?

Also, the strategy is one used by a lot of people so a conversion rate that bad seems highly suspicious only cause you would expect at LEAST one conversion by now. Maybe a new offer or sales page is worth testing.

Have a close look at your analytics and placements. Maybe a few publishers are chewing up your budget. Even whitelists from account managers can have terrible placements for certain offers.

I agree with the comment though on cold traffic- this is a tough sell with some of these videos upwards of 1 hour. The real money is made in the back end with the offer owners who are retargetting your traffic or collecting subs.
 

mmsooi247ceo

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Good day, for me...by the time you have spent 100.00$ to maybe 200$ you should have conversions. Understanding your data...When your focusing on these types of offers your going to have to have a hefty budget. Also, attempt to build a relationship with your customer. I spent years spending on these offers, etc. Trail & error'$...hear me out. Im going to give you some jewels, then IM going to work my video for youtube. Maybe you guys, subscribe. Ok...Looking over the data now this a.m that I can see more, Expiure. number one I wouldnt have promoted this offer as of now. Looking at the certain data, for the main sale page, etc.

Learning this is critical when it comes to paid traffic. You have a decent landing page, but the main page with a bounce rate borderline high. I wouldnt fight the data with my budget for that offer. True it may convert, but the other factors that I see in your data. I believe would be the problem, switch your offer. It also could be your page load time, you have to look at when no sales. Your page loaded fine on my end here... Targeting could also play a factor...but then you are looking for a consumer to research, etc, then enter credit card details.

When you go for a Cost Per Action Offer (CPA) and target outside the US. Or go for an "impulse" buy for your offer, I believe you will see better results, like I did. You will get the volume you need to earn proft from what you've spent in advertising already. I've been doing this for years, around 15 now, learning to master paid traffic, from six-figure a month marketers. Behind the scenes...the offers are not bad, once you understand the psychiatric ascpect of the consumer. Most of these people online teaching and promote these courses dont even know this crictiacl info. Ones that do, will charge you and arm & leg to learn...when that could've been spent on your budget. Wrong offer, I'd change it...then for your advertising budget you may have left.

CPA offers may pay less, but when your getting .002 clicks to an offer that pays, 2.40-5.80 just for an action. The math equals out to be better for profit. Say you have 250.00-500.00 budget and you get clicks, not bots to this offer. In which you'll need more than one offer, for me three offers. Once you know what to look at and change in your data... You should see improvement....Focus on the method, in which your in the right area. Your doing pretty much the same work for the Exipure offer. Pretty good landing page...but why think anout it hard? When you can let other marketers work & LP's and data be a blueprint for your presentation to advertise. So you will already have an idea of what an audience may be converting with.

Hope that helps a litte bit.
Have a great day!
 

johnthesushigod

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You mentioned CPA(~$1.50) - what is the action you are measuring here?

Also, the strategy is one used by a lot of people so a conversion rate that bad seems highly suspicious only cause you would expect at LEAST one conversion by now. Maybe a new offer or sales page is worth testing.

Have a close look at your analytics and placements. Maybe a few publishers are chewing up your budget. Even whitelists from account managers can have terrible placements for certain offers.

I agree with the comment though on cold traffic- this is a tough sell with some of these videos upwards of 1 hour. The real money is made in the back end with the offer owners who are retargetting your traffic or collecting subs.
Hi Joey, big fan!

CPA~$1.50 = avg cost per affiliate link click, from my LP to the exipure's VSL

---

for potential publishers that may be chewing my budget, i've checked and its unlikely - i've set up a new campaign now (desktop - USA): and after around $200 it's optimised for only publishers that are providing the highest LP CTR (~25%)

but high LP CTR doesn't mean high CVR - so after the point of upper-funnel metrics which i can measure on my LP, i literally have no way of knowing which publishers are "chewing up my budget" as i can only measure that based on the offer's VSL CVR rate... which i don't have any yet.

---

For the low CVR i think it's mainly because most of the publishers feeding my traffic aren't that good (only 10% of them are premium ones like CNN)

Based on my LP CTR: good publishers can give 30% LP CTR and bad publishers literally just 3% LP CTR

So I assume this is the case for CVR as well. Just slightly less extreme.

But since i need min ~20 sales to optimise for publishers that has traffic that actually converts - which needs hefty budget...

Do you recommend targeting "MSN only" for my campaign, test using ~$200?

Outbrain's article mentioned MSN gives consistent quality & high converting traffic - for a slightly higher CPC and stricter policies. The catch is HOW MUCH higher the quality of traffic is...

Aside from that, i really don't have any ideas left on how to improve my campaign :(

maybe i should try @mmsooi247ceo's idea to promote cheaper lead gen offers that doesn't need massive budget to optimise and arent as saturated yet... Then come back for these offers when i have sufficient budget (like $10,000)....?

Thanks a lot.
 

johnthesushigod

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Good day, for me...by the time you have spent 100.00$ to maybe 200$ you should have conversions. Understanding your data...When your focusing on these types of offers your going to have to have a hefty budget. Also, attempt to build a relationship with your customer. I spent years spending on these offers, etc. Trail & error'$...hear me out. Im going to give you some jewels, then IM going to work my video for youtube. Maybe you guys, subscribe. Ok...Looking over the data now this a.m that I can see more, Expiure. number one I wouldnt have promoted this offer as of now. Looking at the certain data, for the main sale page, etc.

Learning this is critical when it comes to paid traffic. You have a decent landing page, but the main page with a bounce rate borderline high. I wouldnt fight the data with my budget for that offer. True it may convert, but the other factors that I see in your data. I believe would be the problem, switch your offer. It also could be your page load time, you have to look at when no sales. Your page loaded fine on my end here... Targeting could also play a factor...but then you are looking for a consumer to research, etc, then enter credit card details.

When you go for a Cost Per Action Offer (CPA) and target outside the US. Or go for an "impulse" buy for your offer, I believe you will see better results, like I did. You will get the volume you need to earn proft from what you've spent in advertising already. I've been doing this for years, around 15 now, learning to master paid traffic, from six-figure a month marketers. Behind the scenes...the offers are not bad, once you understand the psychiatric ascpect of the consumer. Most of these people online teaching and promote these courses dont even know this crictiacl info. Ones that do, will charge you and arm & leg to learn...when that could've been spent on your budget. Wrong offer, I'd change it...then for your advertising budget you may have left.

CPA offers may pay less, but when your getting .002 clicks to an offer that pays, 2.40-5.80 just for an action. The math equals out to be better for profit. Say you have 250.00-500.00 budget and you get clicks, not bots to this offer. In which you'll need more than one offer, for me three offers. Once you know what to look at and change in your data... You should see improvement....Focus on the method, in which your in the right area. Your doing pretty much the same work for the Exipure offer. Pretty good landing page...but why think anout it hard? When you can let other marketers work & LP's and data be a blueprint for your presentation to advertise. So you will already have an idea of what an audience may be converting with.

Hope that helps a litte bit.
Have a great day!
Hey man, thanks a lot for the info

I am truly very interested in what you're saying, if i can get ~$0.002 clicks and get affiliate offers that pays ~$5 per action(leads, sales etc), then definitely there is better profits! a cheaper offer also allows faster profiting and optimisation since i only have about $500 budget left now.

Could you recommend some of these offers to me? and maybe even share the traffic that allows $0.002 clicks that actually engages? That would be awesome

And btw, whats your youtube channel? I'm definitely gonna subscribe :)

Thanks and you too have a great day ahead
 

joeybabbs

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Hi Joey, big fan!

CPA~$1.50 = avg cost per affiliate link click, from my LP to the exipure's VSL

---

for potential publishers that may be chewing my budget, i've checked and its unlikely - i've set up a new campaign now (desktop - USA): and after around $200 it's optimised for only publishers that are providing the highest LP CTR (~25%)

but high LP CTR doesn't mean high CVR - so after the point of upper-funnel metrics which i can measure on my LP, i literally have no way of knowing which publishers are "chewing up my budget" as i can only measure that based on the offer's VSL CVR rate... which i don't have any yet.

---

For the low CVR i think it's mainly because most of the publishers feeding my traffic aren't that good (only 10% of them are premium ones like CNN)

Based on my LP CTR: good publishers can give 30% LP CTR and bad publishers literally just 3% LP CTR

So I assume this is the case for CVR as well. Just slightly less extreme.

But since i need min ~20 sales to optimise for publishers that has traffic that actually converts - which needs hefty budget...

Do you recommend targeting "MSN only" for my campaign, test using ~$200?

Outbrain's article mentioned MSN gives consistent quality & high converting traffic - for a slightly higher CPC and stricter policies. The catch is HOW MUCH higher the quality of traffic is...

Aside from that, i really don't have any ideas left on how to improve my campaign :(

maybe i should try @mmsooi247ceo's idea to promote cheaper lead gen offers that doesn't need massive budget to optimise and arent as saturated yet... Then come back for these offers when i have sufficient budget (like $10,000)....?

Thanks a lot.
Thanks!

I believe the problem is the offer yes. Without any conversions, at this point, it is very difficult to make any meaningful decisions.

Finding a better offer or even focussing on a lead gen offers like medicare, loans, finance etc might bring in more conversion data. With Clickbank VSLs you will always be looking at 1-2% CVR so it requires a much bigger budget vs lead generation which can be 5-10% CVR.
 

haha36

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Good day, for me...by the time you have spent 100.00$ to maybe 200$ you should have conversions. Understanding your data...When your focusing on these types of offers your going to have to have a hefty budget. Also, attempt to build a relationship with your customer. I spent years spending on these offers, etc. Trail & error'$...hear me out. Im going to give you some jewels, then IM going to work my video for youtube. Maybe you guys, subscribe. Ok...Looking over the data now this a.m that I can see more, Expiure. number one I wouldnt have promoted this offer as of now. Looking at the certain data, for the main sale page, etc.

Learning this is critical when it comes to paid traffic. You have a decent landing page, but the main page with a bounce rate borderline high. I wouldnt fight the data with my budget for that offer. True it may convert, but the other factors that I see in your data. I believe would be the problem, switch your offer. It also could be your page load time, you have to look at when no sales. Your page loaded fine on my end here... Targeting could also play a factor...but then you are looking for a consumer to research, etc, then enter credit card details.

When you go for a Cost Per Action Offer (CPA) and target outside the US. Or go for an "impulse" buy for your offer, I believe you will see better results, like I did. You will get the volume you need to earn proft from what you've spent in advertising already. I've been doing this for years, around 15 now, learning to master paid traffic, from six-figure a month marketers. Behind the scenes...the offers are not bad, once you understand the psychiatric ascpect of the consumer. Most of these people online teaching and promote these courses dont even know this crictiacl info. Ones that do, will charge you and arm & leg to learn...when that could've been spent on your budget. Wrong offer, I'd change it...then for your advertising budget you may have left.

CPA offers may pay less, but when your getting .002 clicks to an offer that pays, 2.40-5.80 just for an action. The math equals out to be better for profit. Say you have 250.00-500.00 budget and you get clicks, not bots to this offer. In which you'll need more than one offer, for me three offers. Once you know what to look at and change in your data... You should see improvement....Focus on the method, in which your in the right area. Your doing pretty much the same work for the Exipure offer. Pretty good landing page...but why think anout it hard? When you can let other marketers work & LP's and data be a blueprint for your presentation to advertise. So you will already have an idea of what an audience may be converting with.

Hope that helps a litte bit.
Have a great day!
what's your youtube?
 

johnthesushigod

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Thanks!

I believe the problem is the offer yes. Without any conversions, at this point, it is very difficult to make any meaningful decisions.

Finding a better offer or even focussing on a lead gen offers like medicare, loans, finance etc might bring in more conversion data. With Clickbank VSLs you will always be looking at 1-2% CVR so it requires a much bigger budget vs lead generation which can be 5-10% CVR.
Hi again

I have changed from EXIPURE to PROTETOX, another top weight loss offer

Clickbank has a monthly top offer stats update (https://www.clickbank.com/blog/clickbank-top-offers/),
there displays EXIPURE's EPC = $0.93 vs PROTETOX's EPC= $2.06

Let me do a reality check:
1. since my funnel (NATIVE AD -> SHORT LANDER -> OFFER VSL), is 'CORRECT'
2. and my CPA(Cost per affiliate link click from my short lander) is ~$1.00, is 'PROFITABLE'
3. the only real reason i didn't make any sale after 300+ aff clicks is because of EXIPURE- the offer? So if i change to PROTETOX which converts around 2X better Im LIKELY going to be profitable?

Thanks a lot
 

joeybabbs

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Hi again

I have changed from EXIPURE to PROTETOX, another top weight loss offer

Clickbank has a monthly top offer stats update (https://www.clickbank.com/blog/clickbank-top-offers/),
there displays EXIPURE's EPC = $0.93 vs PROTETOX's EPC= $2.06

Let me do a reality check:
1. since my funnel (NATIVE AD -> SHORT LANDER -> OFFER VSL), is 'CORRECT'
2. and my CPA(Cost per affiliate link click from my short lander) is ~$1.00, is 'PROFITABLE'
3. the only real reason i didn't make any sale after 300+ aff clicks is because of EXIPURE- the offer? So if i change to PROTETOX which converts around 2X better Im LIKELY going to be profitable?

Thanks a lot
Truly no one knows....

In theory yes it makes complete sense. :)

If the offer does not convert...then there may be a mismatch in your congruency from ad >> lander >> offer.
(you are attracting the wrong people with different intentions).

This would be a psychological thing which may mean you need to come up with new angles.
 

johnthesushigod

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Truly no one knows....

In theory yes it makes complete sense. :)

If the offer does not convert...then there may be a mismatch in your congruency from ad >> lander >> offer.
(you are attracting the wrong people with different intentions).

This would be a psychological thing which may mean you need to come up with new angles.
Yea... But thanks so much though for the reply :)

Just wanna ask what's a good cpc for the general native ads campaign on mobile (no targeting restrictions, big reach type):

- is $0.30 CPC considered high or low?

- Also what's a good LP CTR? (mine is ~25%)

(y)
 

joeybabbs

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Yea... But thanks so much though for the reply :)

Just wanna ask what's a good cpc for the general native ads campaign on mobile (no targeting restrictions, big reach type):

- is $0.30 CPC considered high or low?

- Also what's a good LP CTR? (mine is ~25%)

(y)
30 cents seems high for broad reach unless it's all in the USA which seems about right. 25% or more CTR or more on the landing page is decent.
 

johnthesushigod

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30 cents seems high for broad reach unless it's all in the USA which seems about right. 25% or more CTR or more on the landing page is decent.
Thanks (y)

For native ads - english lang: How does targeting WORLDWIDE vs USA-only affect an offer's conversion rate?
 

joeybabbs

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Wait are you targeting worldwide?

I have not done this myself because each country has many different factors to optimize for....obvious ones being CPC, language, LP Angles etc...to try and run a CPA campaign with worldwide targetting to me seems like a big waste of money and might even result in you just getting a bunch of traffic from tier 2-3 countries. I would be very careful with that setup and would advise against it.
 

johnthesushigod

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Wait are you targeting worldwide?

I have not done this myself because each country has many different factors to optimize for....obvious ones being CPC, language, LP Angles etc...to try and run a CPA campaign with worldwide targetting to me seems like a big waste of money and might even result in you just getting a bunch of traffic from tier 2-3 countries. I would be very careful with that setup and would advise against it.
Oh i see that makes sense.

But the problem is i hadn't even made ONE SALE after $900 & 2 months... despite me using the most popular native ads method...

this is my EXACT funnel, if you could tell me the big issue i would really appreciate it:
CAMPAIGN:

Screenshot 2022-10-29 at 8.10.10 PM.png
Screenshot 2022-10-29 at 8.10.23 PM.png

AD:

Screenshot 2022-10-29 at 8.04.55 PM.png

LANDER:
OFFER VSL LINK:

(NATIVE AD -> LANDER -> OFFER VSL)

---


I'm starting to think $150/sale weight loss offers require multiple RETARGETING's for a person to even convert, which is very hard for me because the funnel gets even more complex and with $400 budget left I definitely can't afford the risks.

Maybe I should do CPL instead where conversions are cheaper- like $10/sale...?

Thanks alot Joey, these forum Q&A's has really been helpful.
 

joeybabbs

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Oh i see that makes sense.

But the problem is i hadn't even made ONE SALE after $900 & 2 months... despite me using the most popular native ads method...

this is my EXACT funnel, if you could tell me the big issue i would really appreciate it:
CAMPAIGN:

View attachment 14782View attachment 14783
AD:

View attachment 14781
LANDER:
OFFER VSL LINK:

(NATIVE AD -> LANDER -> OFFER VSL)

---


I'm starting to think $150/sale weight loss offers require multiple RETARGETING's for a person to even convert, which is very hard for me because the funnel gets even more complex and with $400 budget left I definitely can't afford the risks.

Maybe I should do CPL instead where conversions are cheaper- like $10/sale...?

Thanks alot Joey, these forum Q&A's has really been helpful.
Its really hard to say what's happening without also seeing your placements that are eating the most budget. Have you confirmed all traffic isfrom the USA?

I think that could be a problem too - Mobile users aren't gonna sit and watch a 30 min or 1-hour video that some of these Clickbank videos are using.

Also why are you focussed on Wifi only?

Maybe with $400 left you should focus on a lead generation campaign - not a clickbank cold traffic VSL.
 

johnthesushigod

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Its really hard to say what's happening without also seeing your placements that are eating the most budget. Have you confirmed all traffic isfrom the USA?

I think that could be a problem too - Mobile users aren't gonna sit and watch a 30 min or 1-hour video that some of these Clickbank videos are using.

Also why are you focussed on Wifi only?

Maybe with $400 left you should focus on a lead generation campaign - not a clickbank cold traffic VSL.

Ahh, i see. I've contacted Account manager they assured me Outbrain's traffic is legitimate.

But really, what is the difference between me vs 5 figure/day guys - we both use the same funnel style (NATIVE AD -> LANDER -> CB OFFER VSL)

Is it because of the campaign's CONVERSION-PIXEL? Because in theory with same targeting, ad, landing page, offer - but the one with UN-OPTIMISED PIXEL gets -300% ROI vs OPTIMISED PIXEL(after $5000 spend & 50+ sales) gets 100% ROI - as there are simply too many placements & publishers to optimised for, a big initial budget($10K eg) is needed...? - this is the only reason i can think of for why im failing...

So next i will try lead gen offers (~$10/conversion), any suggestions on which affiliate network is the best for CPL offers? (cause i dont think ClickBank doesn't has good CPL offers)

Thanks alot man :)
Cheers
 

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